Using WCS/Tplane and no 4th axis output.

[kunfuzed]

Here's the problem. Our shop, for some reason, had their post configured years ago so that when posting, the programmer is prompted to "Output 4th axis moves y/n?" A few weeks ago, a programmer forgot to hit yes, and the operator on the machine let it do 270 work on the 0 side. So now we're trying to figure out how to prevent this from happening. It seems to me that the switch/prompt shouldn't be necessary.

 

This is how we program 3 axis parts. In one file, we will have different toolpath groups(op1, op2, op3, etc). Each one we set up a Gview and origin and use that for the C/Tplane. WCS is always set to Top. When posting we hit "no" for no A moves.

 

4 axis parts are the same, but we set the WCS to the A0 Gview. When prompted we say "yes" to output A moves.

 

I've been playing around with the Generic Haas 4 axis MD and have gathered that if you set the WCS to your C/Tplane, then there should be no rotation, but it still outputs A axis moves. How can I get it to not output A axis moves on 3 axis work in one Group, but output A axis moves on 4 axis work in another?

 

Hope that makes sense. Pointers are apreciated.

 

Btw... JUST GOT X4!

[Todd Tracey from Fastech]

Go in to the axis combinations in the MD, and remove the A axis save, replace and re-post. A should be gone.

[kunfuzed]

I think I tried that and it didn't work. If it did work, would I need two different MMD's? One for 3 axis and one for 4?

[kunfuzed]

How do you guys program parts like that?

[Chris Rizzo]

Like Todd says to disable 4th output. I'll use two machine defs. for 3 and 4 ax in the same file.

[Tony35]

or have 2 posts

[[email protected]]

quote:

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So now we're trying to figure out how to prevent this from happening.

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I started out as a young kid in my Uncles Tool & Die shop and if I scrapped a part he would tie a rope on it and make me wear it around my neck the rest of the day.

That'll break him from doin it again

[kunfuzed]

Thanks guys. I'll have to convince them of that!

[Mr. Wizzard]

I use the same post for my Haas TM-2 with 4th axis. Use your WCS, T/C planes correctly and it will work just fine for you. It takes some messin' around, but will do what you're looking for.

Creat your T/C planes to get rotation and A output from the post in the operations you want.

If you don't want rotation output, go into the operations, click on Planes, select WCS to match your T and C planes and you will not have "A" output.

At least, that's how it works for me.

[Mr. Wizzard]

Oops, sorry. I'm using the MPmaster post for X3, downloaded from the site.

Try that one and then my posting above will be correct.

[BrianCNC]

We have a Fadal VMC with a small rotary on it off to the side of the table. Most of the time we run vise work on the table and when running these parts the operator does not like the A axis 0 moves in the program at all so I set up a Misc Int. for using A axis. I don't know whether that is the smart way of doing it or not, but that is what I did. It is still something you can forget to turn on though.

[kunfuzed]

quote:

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If you don't want rotation output, go into the operations, click on Planes, select WCS to match your T and C planes and you will not have "A" output.

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That's exactly how I think it should work. Sounds like maybe an easy post mod?

 

They may not like it though, because it's one added step, setting the WCS = T/Cplane for non 4th axis work. (I know, big deal ) But it seems safer to me because even if they forget, the machine will remind them we it hits an A move with no indexer hooked up. Plus there's no added work when you do want 4th axis output. Done the same as now, minus hitting "yes" when prompted!

[neurosis]

quote:

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I started out as a young kid in my Uncles Tool & Die shop and if I scrapped a part he would tie a rope on it and make me wear it around my neck the rest of the day.

That'll break him from doin it again [Eek!] [big Grin]

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Thats funny! That is how my dad cured our dog of eating his chickens. I thought that he was crazy but it worked like a charm.

[kunfuzed]

A year later and it's happening again...

[K2csq7]

You have got to get your t/c planes correctly, if your using a 4th axis machine, you will have "A" moves in the program. But they should be "A0." if your working at A0. You wouldn't leave out X0. even if all your work was at the X0, would you????

 

What if the operator accidently moved "A" with the pulse handle or something while setting up the job? If there are no A0. call outs in the program the part will be cut wherever the operator left it...

 

Tell your operators to get used to seeing A0. even for only 3 axis work, the machine is a 4 axis, it needs to be programmed as such.

 

If you need help getting it right, you are already in the right place. Throw up some sample code if something isn't right and I for 1 would be glad to help.

 

If you don't want to spend the time, call your reseller, thats what they are there for.

[Bryan Johnson]

If the problem is A0 output in file that have no rotary moves, there is a way to handle this without having 2 different machine defs / posts.

Add logic to the post so that it scans the file for rotary moves in pwrtt. Then only outputs rotary vaules for files that are for rotary.

 

It looks like the mpmaster already works this way.

[CJep]

There is no need to have two different posts, you can setup two different machine defs, one that has the rotary active and one that doesn't.

 

I would suggest setting up separate control defs for the 4axis and 3axis machine defs. The control def can be set to use the same post for both, as long as the post is configured to respond to the machine & control def (version X or latter).

[Santa Fe]

I use the same MD, CD and post for all the milling machines 4th axis or not. If you set up your WCS correctly the post will not output an A move.

 

If you don't want A-moves make sure that WCS, Cplant and TPlane are all set equal to the view you are working on.

 

If your WCS is set to top and Tplane is set to front then the post will output A90.0.

 

By the way I use the Mpmaster post from this site.

[kunfuzed]

That's what I'd like to do! Ours is based off the Generic Haas 4x Mill. Any ideas on how to do that?

[K2csq7]

kunfuzed, why don't you want the "A"? If you & your operators can just all agree to have the "A" in the programs, I would be willing to bet you'll all feel alot better once you get used to seeing it. No seperate MD's, CD's or posts. It will give you perfect code every time...

[kunfuzed]

The operators are fine with it. It's the machine that has a problem with it when the 4th isn't enabled.

[K2csq7]

My opinion is just leave it enabled and never think about this problem again...but ur the boss, so how tweaked is your post, would you be willing to switch to the mpmaster? BTW Todd's post from 8-27-09 works for me gen 4x haas mill post here is code with stock post..

code:

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 N100 G20

N110 G0 G17 G40 G49 G80 G90

N120 T1 M6

N130 G0 G90 G54 X-1.3474 Y2.3303 A0. S1069 M3

N140 G43 H1 Z2.

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and here it is with the a axis deleted from the MD

 

code:

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N100 G20

N110 G0 G17 G40 G49 G80 G90

N120 T1 M6

N130 G0 G90 G54 X-1.3474 Y2.3303 S1069 M3

N140 G43 H1 Z2.

N150 M8

N160 Z.1

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[Bryan Johnson]

quote:

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That's what I'd like to do! Ours is based off the Generic Haas 4x Mill. Any ideas on how to do that?

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There is a very good Haas post on this FTP that already includes that feature.

 

Mill_Haas_VF.PST

[Santa Fe]

Download the Mpmaster post from this site. I just had to do minor seting adjustments to the CD and minor edits to the post processor.

 

As I said, Mpmaster will output A-moves or not depending on your WCS, and Tplane. Make sure they are set correctly and you don't need anything else.

 

Regards.

[kunfuzed]

quote:

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The operators are fine with it. It's the machine that has a problem with it when the 4th isn't enabled.

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Turns out I was wrong! The machine doesn't care.

 

Guess that's what I get for talking somebody elses word.

 

Unfortunately I'm not the boss, and post mods are a big deal that have to go through a huge line of hoops and rings. But sometimes my suggestions are taken. After the last scrap part I think they're more willing to listen.