Misc integers...again

[Thad]

I just did some reading on misc integers and what they do. And now I'm really confused.

 

The problem came to light when posting a drilling program and the output was entirely incremental. I thought it was a post issue. I had one of the guys on days look into it and he noticed that I had misc values telling it to output incremental. If I create a *new* drilling cycle or milling operation, the misc values box is greyed out. In my ops library, I have misc values in stored within the ops. They are old ops that worked on different machines with different posts. Now, when I use them, I get bad results, such as posting incrementally.

 

Here are my questions/statements:

 

Do I need misc values? If so, when?

 

When would I create a *new* (we import alot from the ops manager) toolpath and need to check the misc values box and enter some numbers?

 

Misc values are tied to the post. How then do I create ops in my library that could be used on any machine with any post? For example, if one post required the misc values and the other didn't. Would having those misc values in the op mess up the posted program that used another post that didn't need misc values?

 

Does the post override or only use misc values that it needs, and ignores the rest? For example, I noticed that when having the misc value selected to post a G54 (this particular machine really doesn't require a work offset), the post doesn't spit one out. Is this because the post overrides the misc value?

 

Can I safely uncheck the misc values box in all my drilling ops that I have saved in order to "fix" my original problem mentioned above? There are no custom drilling cycles involved.

 

Since the misc values are tied to the post, how does that affect programming the job without knowing which machine it will be machined on? Some jobs go up on whatever machine is open at the time. We program the job and then post it when it's time to run it. What am I missing out on, while programming, by referencing the computer's default post processor (without actually posting), and then it getting posted for another machine. Boy, that's confusing! For example, I do most of my programming on one computer that has the Mitsubishi post as the default. As I program this job, the Mits post is referenced for various things, including the misc values, custom drill cycles...etc. Later, I post it for an Allen Bradley. When programming the job, what options/features, if anything, did I miss or lose by doing this? Were some options greyed out that shouldn't have been, had the Allen Bradley post been referenced instead?

 

I notice the misc values have different text by them for different posts.

 

I'd appreciate any comments on this.

 

Thad

[CAM-mando]

Thad,

 

I'll givyou what I know and my thoughts on the situation. Im sure there are some others who will have some good insight and valuable tricks or tips. But here goes.

 

quote:

---

Do I need misc values? If so, when?

---

quote:

---

Misc values are tied to the post. How then do I create ops in my library that could be used on any machine with any post? For example, if one post required the misc values and the other didn't. Would having those misc values in the op mess up the posted program that used another post that didn't need misc values?

---

My thinking is Misc. values are used only when there is no other reasonable way to acomplish a special functionality. For example many posts use it as you mentioned to flag for incremental output.

 

Rather than thinking in terms of the value being "tied to the post" think of it as a flag or switch that a post CAN check and act on.

 

For example If one post looks at mi2 to determine incremental/absolute it would be unwise to set up another post to use mi2 for another purpose. Even if that other post doesnt support incremental output it would be better to leave mi2 un used. Another option could be to have the absolute only post check for mi2=1 and output a comment (INCREMENTAL OUTPUT NOT SUPPORTED) right in the code. Point is the post can ignore the misc. value, whats important is that the use of them doesnt conflict between posts or you will chase your tail.

 

quote:

---

When would I create a *new* (we import alot from the ops manager) toolpath and need to check the misc values box and enter some numbers?

---

Check the comments in the top of the post. The use of misc. values should be noted there.

 

In multiple user / multiple machine environments, it pays to have a 1 page doc sheet for each post and its nuances kept in a booklet at each workstation. I like consistancy among the posts, but where they must be substantially different this can be documented so that everyone is aware of the issues.

 

quote:

---

Does the post override or only use misc values that it needs, and ignores the rest? For example, I noticed that when having the misc value selected to post a G54 (this particular machine really doesn't require a work offset), the post doesn't spit one out. Is this because the post overrides the misc value?

---

The misc. value does nothing on its own. The post can make decisions based on a misc. value, but it has to be programmed to do so. The description you see on the parameters page comes from the .txt file for the post you have loaded. If you open the .txt you will see something like:

 

code:

---

[misc integers]

1. "Work Coordinates [0-1=G92, 2=G54's]"

2. "Absolute/Incremental, top level [0=ABS, 1=INC]"

3. "Reference Return [0=G28, 1=G30]"

4. "Misc. integer [4]"

5. "Misc. integer [5]"

---

The .txt is supposed to be set up to properly support the post, but it is entirely possible to edit the post to ignore a misc. value but leave the .txt unchanged. The result would be that you would be misled by the descriptions on the parameters page.

 

quote:

---

Can I safely uncheck the misc values box in all my drilling ops that I have saved in order to "fix" my original problem mentioned above? There are no custom drilling cycles involved.

---

Sort of... If you still have a post that wants to see that misc. value, you will have to change it back. The solution is to mod the post to eliminate misc. value conflicts. It is a fairly simple task.

 

1. Determine which post is not like the others.

2. BACK UP YOUR POST AND .TXT

3. Opent the post in the editor.

4. Search and replace all the mi.2 with say mi.5.

5. Edit the .txt so that the descriptions match the true functionality of the post.

 

Here are my rules of thumb...

 

1. Make the posts consistant where ever possible.

2. Document the differences.

3. Think through all possibilities regarding the use of misc. values, work offsets and special drill cycles. Where these "Special Values" Are used on some but not all machines, try to provide a catch all of some sort. The warning I mentioned above is one example. Another would be to make sure that custom drill cycles kick back to standard cycles for machines that dont support the custom cycle. Again a comment can be output to warn that the custom cycle isnt supported.

 

Like many things others may have different ideas (maybe better ones) on implementing these features, but thats what I have to offer.

 

Mastercam is incredibly flexible, but with flexibility comes some complexity. Gaining a better understanding of these features will help you make decisions regarding post mods and standard practices.

 

Hope that is of some help.

[Thad]

Very informative, CAMmando. Thanks for your input. I hope to hear a couple more different points of view to gather as much info as possible. One of the threads that I read in my search mentioned the post CD had some info on it about misc values. Maybe I'll look into that as well.

 

I have a few random responses for you:

 

I see in the "features" section at the top of the post, it mentions what misc values the post supports. Would it be a smart move to modify the post for our Fadal so it does not support 3. "Reference Return [0=G28, 1=G30]", since it really doesn't? It seems that the actual change should be made at the bottom of the post.

 

The post really seems to be the boss here. If the mi says one thing, and the post says another, the post comes out on top.

 

 

quote:

---

The misc. value does nothing on its own. The post can make decisions based on a misc. value, but it has to be programmed to do so.

---

So you could have mi1-mi10 assigned with all kinds of numbers, but if the post isn't set up to look at those integers, they mean nothing?

 

 

Does mi1, mi2, etc have one certain function, or can any mi be assigned to any task. As you mentioned,

quote:

---

[misc integers]

1. "Work Coordinates [0-1=G92,2=G54's]"

2. "Absolute/Incremental, top level [0=ABS, 1=INC]"

3. "Reference Return [0=G28, 1=G30]"

---

could I make mi3 control the Reference Return, and mi1 control the Work Coordinate? Not that I would...just questioning the functionality of it.

 

Thanks again!

 

Thad

 

[ 05-30-2003, 02:42 AM: Message edited by: thad ]

[Tony]

"Misc" lets me toggle in a M01

at every tool change.

pmisc2 # Canned Misc #2 Cycle (User Option)

[Rekd™]

CAM, thanks. I started reading thad's post and figured I'd wait to reply 'til today. You pretty much summed every thing up nicely... GJ.

 

thad, lots going on here... good topic.

 

quote:

---

So you could have mi1-mi10 assigned with all kinds of numbers, but if the post isn't set up to look at those integers, they mean nothing?

---

Correct.

 

quote:

---

could I make mi3 control the Reference Return, and mi1 control the Work Coordinate?

---

Yes, you can have the values asigned to what ever mi's you want, you just need to make ALL the changes in ALL the posts.

 

 

quote:

---

Would it be a smart move to modify the post for our Fadal so it does not support 3. "Reference Return [0=G28, 1=G30]", since it really doesn't?

---

Yes, definately

 

I keep all Misc Values consistant between my 4 posts. (All HAAS, so it's easier for me ) I have posts for 3 Axis, 4 Axis, 3 Axis Prestage and 4 Axis Prestage.

 

In your case, I would seperate the mi's so that there are no conflicts between posts. i.e. mi1 can control WFOs on all machines. mi2 might control a conveyor on 2 machines, so put that somewhere where it won't interfere with posts that don't use it, etc.

 

'Rekd teh it ain't easy being cheesy

[CAM-mando]

'rekd,

 

quote:

---

I keep all Misc Values consistant between my 4 posts. (All HAAS, so it's easier for me )

---

Do you have this line in your post ?

 

if mi5=1,

[

if speed > 6000 "(REPLACE SPINDLE)"

]

 

 

dave teh "by next week they will be ofering to pay me to take Bob Cad ... " */faxing more black construction paper.

[Rekd™]

I keep it in low gear.

 

quote:

---

dave teh "by next week they will be ofering to pay me to take Bob Cad ... " */faxing more black construction paper

---

I know where you can get that stuff by the roll...

 

'Rekd teh Banging your head against a wall uses only 150 calories an hour.

 

[ 05-30-2003, 11:23 AM: Message edited by: Rekd ]

[CAM-mando]

quote:

---

'Rekd teh Banging your head against a wall uses only 150 calories an hour.

---

LOL

 

I'm on pace to burn 1,200 calories today

[Rekd™]

quote:

---

I'm on pace to burn 1,200 calories today

---

Don't forget the 32,000 it's gonna take to patch that hole in the wall.

 

'Rekd teh if I were more interesting, this would be wittier

[Thad]

Thanks for the input guys. I'll check back again later.

 

Thad

[G Caputo]

thad,

Just thought I'd share with you what we use integers for in our posts.

We have 2 retrofitted horizontal boring mills with conversational controls on them, so my m-code will look foreign to you just as everyone's in here does to me, but I'll do my best to explain. The spindles travel anywhere from 0-18" but only in 1" increments, M50-M68 (M54 = 4" spindle extension). If I don't check the misc values box the post is set up to "force" a M54 after every tool change to set the spindle length. If I do check the misc values, I have the option of changing my spindle length using the mi5 value.

We also have 2 horizontal boring mills and a floor bar with conversational controls on them, where the spindles use the W-axis as there moves. If I don't check the misc values box, the post is set up to "force" a W-4 move using a real after every tool change to set the spindle length. If I do check the misc values, I have the option of changing my spindle length using the mr5 value.

This way we are keeping everything the same yet different with our posts by forcing a 4" spindle extension no matter what, unless we change them in our misc values.

The first 2 machines also don't have a home position for tool changes, so again we "forced" a Z+20 move in our post before each tool change for tool change clearance. (Nothing is as exciting as a tool change 10" deep in bore). Again we have the option of using the misc values to adjust for either more or less Z clearance as needed, depending on the tool length.

Is it beer thirty yet?

Greg